Civil Rights and Authorship

[dreamland0516]

This is the place for the difficult subjects. The proverbial elephants in the room. I'm creating this because these issues should NOT come up in a critique of someone's work, but they are worth talking about and learning from each other. I have personally witness people change and grow in a controlled academic graduate level course and believe the same is true of all people.

I suspect we will find lots of subtle differences in opinion, but also lots of common ground. A couple of ground rules: 

1. No one is assumed to be a bigot. 

This will be a difficult assumption for many, because hate and harm leaves emotional scars. Yet even if you are certain a point of view is ignorant or bigoted, admonishing someone will cause them to throw up defenses. Learning and discussing will stop. Therefore, the rule is to instead assume best intentions - that the person is here to learn and exchange ideas ad understanding. 

2. Everyone is open to trying to understand a different point of view. 

3. Keep it academic, not emotional. 

[dreamland0516]

I will even provide one topic I sometimes wonder about. Do you all remember this story?

www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/books/amelie-wen-zhao-blood-heir-ya-author-pulls-debut-accusations-racism.html#:~:text=This%20week%2C%20Ms.,and%20empower%2C%E2%80%9D%20she%20wrote.

This was an Asian American author who had slavery in her book. The slavery was intended as an Asian problem, but she was criticized for being too close to Black slavery, and she pulled the book from being published.

I call this a "segregation of the imagination" - where one race is not allowed to approach the trials of another race if the author is not a member.

Although there are plenty of examples of male authors writing female characters in terrible ways, for example, it does not mean a male author cannot write an amazing female protagonist. Our imaginations build empathy, and as long as we are giving our best effort to show truth through our empathy we cannot police what people write in this regard.

[waxesnostalgic]

I do think about Amelie Wen Zhao and the controversy surrounding her book. I read about a similar instance where a black gay writer wrote a story about gay characters in Kosovo which was deemed insufficiently sensitive to the political situation there. I’m sure there are situations like those. I never read his book, but I’m sure there were better ways for people to handle giving gentle critique.

I agree that it’s best to assume good intentions. I find myself thinking the code of conduct may need a rewrite, as I had previously mostly seen discord with critiques when someone got upset when receiving one they disagreed with. But there are many ways critiquing can bring up uncomfortable issues.

Regarding one’s personal views, it’s still required of us as authors and critiquers to be able to be objective. If someone’s writing about a religious topic or social issue in a way you disagree with, comments are best framed as reminders that when we write we open ourselves up to public view, so we have to watch our words—more so for writers who might have opinions that differ from those commonly held by their target audience. And if you disagree but the view is a mainstream one in the publishing industry, it’s best not to say anything at all.

We’ve all seen writers “cancelled” for their views—a pretty harsh punishment for saying one thing “the mob” doesn’t agree with. So when someone says something you’ve written might be interpreted as offensive to a certain group (race, religion, sexual orientation) you should take it seriously for the sake of your career, even if you can’t fully understand on a personal level. And if you’re the one pointing it out, don’t be “the mob” but try to phrase your comments in a way that expresses concern for the person and assumes in good faith that the writer is probably not intending to offend a large group of people but may not realize how their comments might be hurtful.

[Meredith]

I do also remember that story. I thought it was really weird, since slavery was an issue historically in China and Korea, that an Asian author would not be able to write about it. I think part of it was that those criticizing her did not know anything beyond their own history (or history that was not relatively recent) and were unable to understand the author.

I think we can all learn about others’ views here, but the biggest problems are when others refuse to learn about new perspectives. I do want to give others the opportunity to learn and grow, but sometimes it doesn’t work out.

[roseblack]

I don't really want to weigh on the who should write what discussion, as I think that's less relevant here. I think when critiquing it's important to be aware of our personal positions, and not impose them on the text. I'm a solid atheist, but it would be wrong of me to criticise a character who's first impulse is to pray, as long as that characteristic is coherent in the text. If I said that religious behaviour pulled me out of the text because it was something I don't really understand, I'd hope someone would pull me up on that.

[roseblack]

There's also the difference in situation to be aware of. While critique, whether of problematic issues in a book or in critique, can sting, there's a difference between a bit of a sting about something said, and facing down a comment that comes across as dehumanising, or dismissing part of your identity, or similar. While we can try and given commentary as gently as we can, I'm going to more understand of someone who does get upset in those kind of situations.

[Jade]

I feel like if you're editing from the point of objectivity (as much as that is possible, due to our own unconscious biases) you should not be having a high emotional response, like anger. If I feel l'm getting overly emotional or uncomfortable about the content of someone's story, I'll stop/take a break and self-assess on what/why I am being triggered. And maybe decide if I'm the right person to critique that story at that time, or in the future. Sometimes, there is just no way to be objective, and that's ok, but that also means you should step away.

Any critique should start with the information provided by the writer. "This is my world and the way things work in it." It's not my place to judge, it's my place to tell them if it works (for me) as a reader, where I get confused (often, since I'm dyslexic) and possible places they could increase/decrease tension, expand characters, etc. I love discussing world building with other writers, it's so much fun to play with the foundations of a new culture/etc, but I still know it's NOT my decision in the end.


And on the other side of things, if there's a critique I react emotionally to (think it's unfair/etc) I step away from it. Maybe for a day, maybe for a week or longer, and then re-assess. It's my job as the writer to get my story across, and if it's not coming across the way I want it to, that's my fault and it's my place to fix. I often find those critiques that initially get me 'hot' are the most valuable as they tend to poke at underlying larger issues. Often I'm riled up (initially) because I'm angry at myself for missing something major, or realizing that I was lazy in my writing/researching, and yes, someone DID notice.


Personally, I want to love every story I critique, I want to live in someone else's imagination for a while, and it's humbling and a privilege that I'm allowed to make suggestions/comments as the story develops.

[AZAli*avenger]

Wow, I did not look back at week 1 until I saw this thread.

I am so sorry this happened.

The only thing I'll say here is that we're writers, so we should know how to phrase comments so they don't offend someone else regardless of what we feel.

If you're reading this, Sam, I hope you come back next week because we all enjoyed your chapters, including myself.

[Sam Schreiber]

Hey friends!

First of all, I want to say that I appreciate the support from all of you and to clarify that I disappeared because my work life exploded and my non-work time was 100% consumed by just trying to "survive the work week." I hadn't even seen the forum until today (since last Saturday). No one scared me away.

That said, I do appreciate this thread being posted because I was offput by the way the comment was made, but I also expected it. For those who read my first chapters (or for those who didn't), I introduced a dragon character, and as someone said (Jade I believe) this world I've created is one where dragons, gryphons, and merpeople are 3/4 "races" on the planet along with humans. The dragons, which you will find out soon if you keep reading, are hatched from eggs that have existed from "the dawn of time" and are genderless.

I wrote the first draft of this story (sooooo different than the story it is today) in 2008. And even back then, the choice to refer to the dragons as they/them was very very intentional. They do not have gender because they are asexual and androgynous. They just are. I wanted this world to feel so very different from ours. It's a utopia on the verge of collapse, not a world like ours at all. And I expressly do not (oh god, please flag for me if you see it) refer to them as "it" "monster" or "beast" because in the world of Anjidia, dragons are theys and they aren't beasts or animals. They're another race of Anjidian inhabiting the planet that humans, gryphons, and merpeople have to contend with -- like they contend with each other.

When I came back to this story in 2018 to do a rewrite and try to get it publication ready, the discourse had changed. At that time I did make the intentional decision to keep they/them for the dragons because now I realized it was an inclusion issue. And I was aware as the discourse grew more and more divided that it would turn some readers off. (It might even mean the book is added to ban lists and it's just another reason this book is a terrible idea to try to debut with.  ) But I'm ready to face that for the sake of the story and representation I believe in.

The "dehumanizing" suggestion of just referring to them as "it" actually made my book's point for me. And this is actually the conversation I always envisioned a book club having about this book -- or a high school English class, really -- "why did the author never refer to the non-humanoid Anjidians as animals or beasts or creatures?" "Why was it important that they not be "othered" from humans?" "when have you felt "othered" and how could people have been more inclusive of you?"

So in a way, all this critique did was reinforce my belief that my book is doing what I always wanted and given me that much more passion for it. Now I just need to go get more into Lili's head for you all so I can hit you more in the feels!!!

[roseblack]

Good to see you back and I hope work treats you better!

[Jade]

Glad to see you here too I think everyone was pretty worried about you.

Virtual hugs


...also... asexual/androgynous dragons = super cool